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Have you played a tank post 50? On the second ffxiv boss of Sohm Al I can out DPS most actual DPS classes on the second boss because I can stay in deliverance most of the time

Final Fantasy XIV: The cause of friction between roles has nothing to do with the roles itself

Maybe, but DPS often have the most complex rotations and the most difficulty keeping their stated role working to its highest. Tanks barely need to deal with mechanics and both their aggro and DPS rotations tend to be a bit easier--although they require more memorization (knowing when to pop into deliverance/sword oath/turn off grit, for instance). While a DPS may have low responsibility it's not low complexity, and therefore not low stress if they're actually doing their job well.


I get the most tired/stressed playing monk (the only Final Fantasy XIV DPS I really like/play).


Have you played a tank post 50? On the second ffxiv boss of Sohm Al I can out DPS most actual DPS classes on the second boss because I can stay in deliverance most of the time (as he'll never actually attack other than the one kind of weak AoE and digestion if you just keep hitting him plus the fight is short enough that fell cleave burst leaves a lasting impact on DPS). On the last boss I can attack a different wing than both DPS and double fell cleave it to break it before the DPS wing goes. Those are just easy examples.


Nah. They turn into jerks for the same reason anyone else does: A combination of entitlement and trying to hide their own mistakes by yelling at other people. 'I'm the tank, I get instant queues, and if you kick me you might as well just disband because it'll probably take 20 minutes to find a replacement' combined with 'I bet if I just start yelling at the healer first, no one will notice I didn't use any cooldowns back there/if I pretend like the DPS were attacking the wrong targets I can act like it's not my aggro that's shitty'.


I don't think I've ever seen a tank who was good at his job act like a (total) dick. It might happen sometimes, but I've not seen it. Goes for all classes really. It's pretty rare to get a jerk who's also good. Closest I saw was one DPS, and even he stuck around in a learning party for awhile and was constructive. Just. . . very brusque.


As for stress levels? I'm least stressed when tanking. If I want to I can go balls to the wall max deeps stance dancing murder all the things, but if I don't want to do that no one cares as long as I'm using CDs and stuff. Doing my basic job as a tank, I can just. . . stop playing and chat for a bit near the end of pulls when there's not much left alive and my aggro is established enough that DPS can't pull off me, anyway. I very rarely do that (and wouldn't in any kind of difficult content), but the fact I COULD makes the entire job just. . . feel really laid back. Sure if I fuck up we wipe, but it's not like they're gonna kick me (and if they do I can get into another run immediately), and if they're jerks I can just leave and they're screwed. So the responsibility comes with a lot of power that makes up for it and makes it. . . much less stressful.


I wouldn't really put healers as higher than tank on responsibility. If EITHER of them fuck up the group wipes. Healing is more complex than tanking with the same degree of responsibility, but it's less complex than DPSing. I tend to be similarly stressed as WHM as I am as Monk, but. . . a little less so. As long as everyone stays alive and I can DPS at all I feel like I'm doing pretty good. I don't feel the same need to wring every last ounce out of it (though I do enjoy the holy bombing and DPS a lot just 'cause it's boring otherwise), but the responsibility does add some stress.


Also, if the healer is yelling at people, again, they're usually doing it to cover their own mistakes. Yell at that person for getting in AoEs instead of moving out of them myself/taking any responsibility.


I think the jerk = bad player thing is probably because of how good players deal with mistakes on the part of their team members. A good player may see someone standing in AoE unnecessarily and might ask them to watch out for it in the future, but the good player is less focused on how much that guy screwed up, and instead on how they might have been able to save the run in spite of that guy's screw up. The good player always tries to find how they could have fixed it. What they could have done to have maybe made things a little smoother.


A good DPS doesn't blame another DPS with low damage for failing to meet DPS checks. They might mention to the raid leader that this person is low or ask that person if they want help with rotations, but they're also going to be thinking 'Could I have done more damage? Maybe if I had timed that tornado kick better, maybe if I slowed DPS on that add so it was around to keep FFXIV GIL 3 up just a little longer for the burn phase, maybe I can eke out a little more with a different opener, did I make a mistake somewhere?' The good DPS may not want to carry poor DPS but they want to be able to do as much damage as possible--and being able to carry a bad DPS might just be a result of that.


The good tank when he dies doesn't yell at the healer for not being there. The good tank goes, 'well, I could have maybe lived if I had thrown out holmgang a little sooner, or if I had berserked into a second wind, or if I had--' The good tank shares responsibility.


That attitude is not only more pleasant but pushes for constant improvement from the player--which is, again, probably why when you meet toxic players, they tend to also be bad players. Because toxic players don't think about how THEY can improve, only about how everyone else can--even if everyone else was fine. It couldn't possibly be anything the toxic player did wrong. Has to have been those OTHER guys.


But, I mean, that's just my experiences. On all counts.


Your mileage may vary and all that, and you may get super stressed playing tank and feel totally relaxed playing Final Fantasy XIV DPS and that's cool. Maybe you're okay with healers yelling at you, which, I mean if you're into that kinda thing, well, you do you.


I'm just trying to toss out another perspective. Particularly on the 'DPS is easy faceroll' thing people think. . . which is probably why there's a lot of really subpar DPS around in every MMO. It's not really the easiest role, but when people keep saying it is, welp. That's where the less skilled players go.

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